The sit down with charlie worsham
20 years after moving to Nashville, Charlie Worsham is embarking on an exciting new chapter. Following a decade-plus run with Warner Music, the Mississippi-born singer-songwriter is stepping out as an independent artist with his upcoming album, Once Upon a Second Time Around. We sat down with Charlie to look ahead to the albums release and his upcoming return to the UK for a run of live dates including a slot at Country Calling Festival.
Thank you for taking the time today, Charlie.
My pleasure, man.
I think the last time I saw you, we were walking across the forecourt in Berlin and you had a huge smile on your face, guitar in hand, just saying hello to absolutely everybody.
Yeah, yeah, that was a fun time. I really loved that experience. I've been to Berlin probably 5 or 6 times, but really only for barely a day. To get to camp out there for a few more days meant I could go in the mornings for a run or something, and I now have a favourite coffee shop in Berlin. I have a little inner Anthony Bourdain in my heart, and anytime I can indulge him is a good day.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like 18 months ago, in Berlin, you started to actually tease this album.
Yeah.
That's been a long time coming!
Oh, man, and I'm used to it by now. I understand the timing of it all now, but the funny thing from that moment till now—as recently as January of this year, which would be 9 months after Berlin last year-ish—I had the record! I just had no clue how it was gonna get out! This was my first experience putting out music as an independent artist. I was in between managers too. Now, I'm really good at the music part. I can do that, that part I understand, and I understand the deadlines, the ins and outs. The part after that where you get it to the masses, I am very much a beginner, and clueless!
Thank you for taking the time today, Charlie.
My pleasure, man.
I think the last time I saw you, we were walking across the forecourt in Berlin and you had a huge smile on your face, guitar in hand, just saying hello to absolutely everybody.
Yeah, yeah, that was a fun time. I really loved that experience. I've been to Berlin probably 5 or 6 times, but really only for barely a day. To get to camp out there for a few more days meant I could go in the mornings for a run or something, and I now have a favourite coffee shop in Berlin. I have a little inner Anthony Bourdain in my heart, and anytime I can indulge him is a good day.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like 18 months ago, in Berlin, you started to actually tease this album.
Yeah.
That's been a long time coming!
Oh, man, and I'm used to it by now. I understand the timing of it all now, but the funny thing from that moment till now—as recently as January of this year, which would be 9 months after Berlin last year-ish—I had the record! I just had no clue how it was gonna get out! This was my first experience putting out music as an independent artist. I was in between managers too. Now, I'm really good at the music part. I can do that, that part I understand, and I understand the deadlines, the ins and outs. The part after that where you get it to the masses, I am very much a beginner, and clueless!
It just so happens—and it's why I titled the record Once Upon a Second Time Around—because this record is going to drop the same month, 20 years to the month, that I moved to Nashville. I'm finding that if you're around long enough (and it's probably true in other communities, but certainly in our music community here), the same people resurface, but they've often reinvented themselves, and that's what happened. I had breakfast with a dear old friend, Michael Bryan, who I first met on my radio tour when I had first signed at Warner, and he was a program director at the radio station. In those 15 years since we first met, he had his career at radio, he wrapped that up, he had a short, brief career with a booking agency, another career there, here, and then he became the head of country music at Apple Music, brought me in there podcasting, and my first taste of that was thanks to him bringing me in for Pickers Radio. I had breakfast with Michael back in January, and it turns out he's starting a management company. From January till now, I had the good fortune of a friend who appeared once upon a second time around to figure out all the parts of it that I'm clueless about, that he happens to be really good with.
How good has it been having that freedom on this release, to do it on your own timeframe, not feel like you've got the push of an executive to kind of say we need this ready, we need this, now, now, now?
Yeah, well, first I want to be very clear that I am so grateful to Warner for the 12 years they gave me a home to make records, and not once did I ever feel pressured by them to be anything other than me. I knew that they had signed me to be me, and they supported that, and they wanted that to win. It's less Warner and more the nature of when you're on a major label—no matter how cool the people are in the office in Nashville, it's a corporation, and the end game for a corporation and the end game for art just aren't the same two things. When they can intersect, it's amazing, right? But it's hard to get them to intersect. There is a freedom, you know, you speak to a real truth there. Although, it's not just this freedom that I found by becoming independent, I think it's this moment we're in where technology is shifting, how people discover music is shifting, and it comes with its own challenges. For someone like me, who for a long time, the multi-hyphenate nature of my skill set and the way that I've paid rent all these years—it just felt like it worked against me. For the first time, it's starting to feel like it actually works to my advantage because what it really boils down to, and I'm not saying you can't tell ChatGPT to write a story for you and tell it, but ChatGPT and Claude don't know what water out of a garden hose tastes like, and they don't know what heartbreak feels like. I got them there, you know!
How good has it been having that freedom on this release, to do it on your own timeframe, not feel like you've got the push of an executive to kind of say we need this ready, we need this, now, now, now?
Yeah, well, first I want to be very clear that I am so grateful to Warner for the 12 years they gave me a home to make records, and not once did I ever feel pressured by them to be anything other than me. I knew that they had signed me to be me, and they supported that, and they wanted that to win. It's less Warner and more the nature of when you're on a major label—no matter how cool the people are in the office in Nashville, it's a corporation, and the end game for a corporation and the end game for art just aren't the same two things. When they can intersect, it's amazing, right? But it's hard to get them to intersect. There is a freedom, you know, you speak to a real truth there. Although, it's not just this freedom that I found by becoming independent, I think it's this moment we're in where technology is shifting, how people discover music is shifting, and it comes with its own challenges. For someone like me, who for a long time, the multi-hyphenate nature of my skill set and the way that I've paid rent all these years—it just felt like it worked against me. For the first time, it's starting to feel like it actually works to my advantage because what it really boils down to, and I'm not saying you can't tell ChatGPT to write a story for you and tell it, but ChatGPT and Claude don't know what water out of a garden hose tastes like, and they don't know what heartbreak feels like. I got them there, you know!
I'm from Mississippi, man. Storytelling is literally our first language, probably more than any actual language—that's what we do. I feel not so much a musical freedom—I've always felt free musically—I feel a freedom to take every curiosity I have, every skill I have, everything I've ever wanted to do. I get to kind of throw it all into the blender right now, and put it all in one big concoction, and this record's just a part of that, but it's nice to have it coming out.
How important has 20 years of Nashville contacts been to you now that you've gone independent? Did you have to go deep into the contact list?
Yeah, the first calls list has actually been the same list for a long time. I mean, it's what you'll read on the liner notes of this record—Jerry Rowe on drums, Rich Brinsfield on bass, Chris Donegan on guitar, my longtime pal Sarah Buxton came and sang some harmonies, all the collaborations, they're all connected to me in long, deep, historic ways. It just feels good and feels like I'm going over to the garage to crank up the garage band with all my old pals in the neighbourhood.
I actually spoke with Waylon Payne yesterday and you've written with him for his record. How have you kind of found it doing your own thing, while at the same time touring and helping other artists with co-writes?
Oh, I love it. Yeah, I have yet to write a song with another artist for them, or play on another artist's record, or back them up on stage, that I didn't take something extremely valuable home for myself, that I could implement in how I make a record, or play a show, or write a song. I particularly love Waylon and this record he's made. The thing about the Waylon record that's out now that tickles me so much is it's reminding me of when I made my record, Beginning of Things, because it's the same production team of Frank Liddell and Eric Masse. I've known Eric since college, that's when we first became friends, and if I could show you here the music gear that's sitting right off camera, some of it is Eric's old gear, because for these 20 years, I'll get a microphone, and Eric borrows it, and then he just ends up keeping it, and then Eric will call me and be like, "Hey, I have a compressor I'm not using," and so we have this sort of free association trade situation with gear! My project, Beginning of Things, and Miranda's The Weight of These Wings were the first two records that Eric and Frank made together, and they co-produced the reigning album of the year with Parker McCollum. Parker's a new friend, but earlier this year, I was on a bus riding with Parker, and that's just what I love, man. Community begets more community. That great Kenny Rogers tune—well, it's really a Don Schlitz / Caitlyn Smith song, is who wrote it, RIP Don, who was a dear friend. Community, right? You can't make old friends. I'm lucky to have old friends.
How important has 20 years of Nashville contacts been to you now that you've gone independent? Did you have to go deep into the contact list?
Yeah, the first calls list has actually been the same list for a long time. I mean, it's what you'll read on the liner notes of this record—Jerry Rowe on drums, Rich Brinsfield on bass, Chris Donegan on guitar, my longtime pal Sarah Buxton came and sang some harmonies, all the collaborations, they're all connected to me in long, deep, historic ways. It just feels good and feels like I'm going over to the garage to crank up the garage band with all my old pals in the neighbourhood.
I actually spoke with Waylon Payne yesterday and you've written with him for his record. How have you kind of found it doing your own thing, while at the same time touring and helping other artists with co-writes?
Oh, I love it. Yeah, I have yet to write a song with another artist for them, or play on another artist's record, or back them up on stage, that I didn't take something extremely valuable home for myself, that I could implement in how I make a record, or play a show, or write a song. I particularly love Waylon and this record he's made. The thing about the Waylon record that's out now that tickles me so much is it's reminding me of when I made my record, Beginning of Things, because it's the same production team of Frank Liddell and Eric Masse. I've known Eric since college, that's when we first became friends, and if I could show you here the music gear that's sitting right off camera, some of it is Eric's old gear, because for these 20 years, I'll get a microphone, and Eric borrows it, and then he just ends up keeping it, and then Eric will call me and be like, "Hey, I have a compressor I'm not using," and so we have this sort of free association trade situation with gear! My project, Beginning of Things, and Miranda's The Weight of These Wings were the first two records that Eric and Frank made together, and they co-produced the reigning album of the year with Parker McCollum. Parker's a new friend, but earlier this year, I was on a bus riding with Parker, and that's just what I love, man. Community begets more community. That great Kenny Rogers tune—well, it's really a Don Schlitz / Caitlyn Smith song, is who wrote it, RIP Don, who was a dear friend. Community, right? You can't make old friends. I'm lucky to have old friends.
With this record, no one can accuse you of staying in one lane of the country spectrum as there's a bluegrass version of "Wrap My Porch Around", which I absolutely love! I love how you put them both out on the same day too.
Right. Yeah, and you know, the first person I know who did that is Vince Gill with High Lonesome Sound. Vince is obviously a wellspring of inspiration for me, ongoing. I get to see him tonight and play on the Ryman stage with him, and I just love how that was his way of honouring his bluegrass roots; his way of saying, nobody writes the rules, I can do what I want. For me, it was deeply meaningful and deeply full circle to make the two versions of that song, but particularly to make the bluegrass version of that song at Vince's house with the Traveling McCourys, because the McCourys make frequent appearances on Dierks Bentley records, and obviously, in the last 4 years, Dierks has been a huge part of my life. Talk about somebody I've learned a great wealth of information from, and not just in music, but how to be a great dad, too.
You got Jaren to co-produce this one for you again and some co-writes. Is it good to have kept that link from past releases?
Jaren's great because he's a master of both worlds. I mean, he's written some massive radio hit songs, but he never lost sight of that sort of funky left-of-centre thing that his band, The Cadillac Three, do so well. Jaren's also another dad pal, and Jaren's been through it in his personal life. He's lived some real life, and I would go to Jaren to collaborate as co-writers. In the studio, whether it was my record or someone else's, or to get on a stage and jam together, because, like me, he has a different background. Where I have bluegrass, Jaren's got rock and roll, but not that I don't love rock, but he's a great collaborator. He's happy to take it wherever you want it to go, and we got a little bit of both on this project, because it started when I was still on the roster at Warner, and it ended with me as an independent artist. What I love is in the sequencing of the record, if you listen in sequence, that's a part of the story that you hear as the songs unfold.
With streaming, do you feel that the sequence of a story can get lost now with everyone just hitting shuffle rather than listening from track one?
Well, the way I see it is if you're putting an album out, you're asking fans to buy season tickets. My feelings aren't gonna be hurt if they're new to me. I want them to come to whatever ballgame they want to come to, and if that's track 7, start with Track 7; but also, if they become interested in a season pass, then I do recommend listening in sequence. I'm a big bookworm, and I'm trying to see if I don't have a book in me at some point, and if I do, it might be just what I've learned in life, like a Charlie's X number of rules. One of the rules I've got in my loose notes for this potential eventual book is that you don't have to finish every book you pick up, but it's important to be reading books. That's how I feel about my record. It'd be good to give it a shot, see if you can listen in sequence, but hey, get in where you want to get in, get out where you want to get out. Marty Stuart has a great quote about country music and his belief that anybody's gonna fall in love with country music. He's like, just hop on the country music train on whichever car interests you. Eventually, you will walk up and down to the different cars on the train, and love the whole thing, or most of it. If you're a hobo out there in the world, man, hop on the Country Music Train wherever it meets you.
Right. Yeah, and you know, the first person I know who did that is Vince Gill with High Lonesome Sound. Vince is obviously a wellspring of inspiration for me, ongoing. I get to see him tonight and play on the Ryman stage with him, and I just love how that was his way of honouring his bluegrass roots; his way of saying, nobody writes the rules, I can do what I want. For me, it was deeply meaningful and deeply full circle to make the two versions of that song, but particularly to make the bluegrass version of that song at Vince's house with the Traveling McCourys, because the McCourys make frequent appearances on Dierks Bentley records, and obviously, in the last 4 years, Dierks has been a huge part of my life. Talk about somebody I've learned a great wealth of information from, and not just in music, but how to be a great dad, too.
You got Jaren to co-produce this one for you again and some co-writes. Is it good to have kept that link from past releases?
Jaren's great because he's a master of both worlds. I mean, he's written some massive radio hit songs, but he never lost sight of that sort of funky left-of-centre thing that his band, The Cadillac Three, do so well. Jaren's also another dad pal, and Jaren's been through it in his personal life. He's lived some real life, and I would go to Jaren to collaborate as co-writers. In the studio, whether it was my record or someone else's, or to get on a stage and jam together, because, like me, he has a different background. Where I have bluegrass, Jaren's got rock and roll, but not that I don't love rock, but he's a great collaborator. He's happy to take it wherever you want it to go, and we got a little bit of both on this project, because it started when I was still on the roster at Warner, and it ended with me as an independent artist. What I love is in the sequencing of the record, if you listen in sequence, that's a part of the story that you hear as the songs unfold.
With streaming, do you feel that the sequence of a story can get lost now with everyone just hitting shuffle rather than listening from track one?
Well, the way I see it is if you're putting an album out, you're asking fans to buy season tickets. My feelings aren't gonna be hurt if they're new to me. I want them to come to whatever ballgame they want to come to, and if that's track 7, start with Track 7; but also, if they become interested in a season pass, then I do recommend listening in sequence. I'm a big bookworm, and I'm trying to see if I don't have a book in me at some point, and if I do, it might be just what I've learned in life, like a Charlie's X number of rules. One of the rules I've got in my loose notes for this potential eventual book is that you don't have to finish every book you pick up, but it's important to be reading books. That's how I feel about my record. It'd be good to give it a shot, see if you can listen in sequence, but hey, get in where you want to get in, get out where you want to get out. Marty Stuart has a great quote about country music and his belief that anybody's gonna fall in love with country music. He's like, just hop on the country music train on whichever car interests you. Eventually, you will walk up and down to the different cars on the train, and love the whole thing, or most of it. If you're a hobo out there in the world, man, hop on the Country Music Train wherever it meets you.
We're down to the one-week countdown, but it's also probably about a week and a half till you're packing your bags to come over this way.
Yeah, it is. Coming up quick.
Is it exciting to have new music so fresh, and getting to bring it to a UK audience first?
Few things are better in this world, and I've got a long enough history with the UK now. You reminded me that I actually have a piece of my former instrument collection living in the UK now. Dee, shout out to you, as I had an old guitar that I played, I bought it when I got a record deal, a Martin, and I outfitted it with two inputs: one to plug through the amp, a sound hole pickup, and one was the standard acoustic DI sound. I was selling it because I've just been in a season of life where I'll sell 3 instruments and buy one, and that instrument served me really well for a long time, but it was time to let it serve someone else, and Dee James happened to buy it. I think that's such a cool thing, and it speaks to the depth of my love and connection with country music fans over there. Man, I'm counting down the days. It's weird now, because I'm still as excited as ever to leave home, and in some ways more excited than ever to leave home, and also it's a bittersweet thing, because I've never been more excited to get back home. There's nothing better than the second verse of "Family Man". You know, there are days I come unravelled, but pause for a minute, pulling down that driveway, take a breath, feel the wind blow, get caught up in the heaven happening through that kitchen window, and what it is for me is walking in the door, and I got these kids that come run and hug me. I have not yet sold out Madison Square Garden on my own name, but I have a feeling even that can't hold a candle to that feeling of your kids.
While you're here, you're playing in the Vinyl Cafe in York.
Yeah. I've been to York once before, opening for Ward Thomas, and it was a beautiful venue where they played. I had had an extra day there, I think we might have had a day off there and I made the most of it. As I said earlier, I got a little Anthony Bourdain in my heart, and when I get to explore a new city, I go all in. I research, I come up with a hit list of stuff, so I walked around the whole city, the Roman walls. I did not go into York Minster, maybe I'll get to do that this time. I walked down all the old parts of the city, the famous streets that inspired Harry Potter, I went for a run along the river there, way out into the country and back. It was just beautiful. Had some great food too, so I definitely aim to get a little taste of that again, and the folks at 45 Vinyl have been so welcoming, and I look forward to connecting with them.
You’ll also be part of the Country Calling lineup on the Saturday. As someone who’s been here multiple times, how exciting is it to hear new festivals that are getting both American and UK country artists on the bill?
It’s great for you guys. The experiences I've had have just been absolutely home runs every time, and I have the good fortune of being friends with Lucy Silvas, and she's hooked me up with some top-notch pickers, so I'm gonna have an ace band with me for these shows. I've played with these guys—one of the guys I've not performed with before, but the other two I have—and I can’t wait.
The countdown is definitely on to the album and your UK shows. It’s good to know you've not forgotten about us!
It's too late for that, y'all are stuck with me now.
Thank you so much and have a great time while you're over here and good luck with next Friday's release day.
Thank you, Ian.
Country Calling will take place at Kings Farm in Chelmsford over the weekend of August 14th to 16th and you can find more details, along with ticket information on their WEBSITE whilst you can keep up to date with all of the latest news on INSTAGRAM TIKTOK or FACEBOOK.
Yeah, it is. Coming up quick.
Is it exciting to have new music so fresh, and getting to bring it to a UK audience first?
Few things are better in this world, and I've got a long enough history with the UK now. You reminded me that I actually have a piece of my former instrument collection living in the UK now. Dee, shout out to you, as I had an old guitar that I played, I bought it when I got a record deal, a Martin, and I outfitted it with two inputs: one to plug through the amp, a sound hole pickup, and one was the standard acoustic DI sound. I was selling it because I've just been in a season of life where I'll sell 3 instruments and buy one, and that instrument served me really well for a long time, but it was time to let it serve someone else, and Dee James happened to buy it. I think that's such a cool thing, and it speaks to the depth of my love and connection with country music fans over there. Man, I'm counting down the days. It's weird now, because I'm still as excited as ever to leave home, and in some ways more excited than ever to leave home, and also it's a bittersweet thing, because I've never been more excited to get back home. There's nothing better than the second verse of "Family Man". You know, there are days I come unravelled, but pause for a minute, pulling down that driveway, take a breath, feel the wind blow, get caught up in the heaven happening through that kitchen window, and what it is for me is walking in the door, and I got these kids that come run and hug me. I have not yet sold out Madison Square Garden on my own name, but I have a feeling even that can't hold a candle to that feeling of your kids.
While you're here, you're playing in the Vinyl Cafe in York.
Yeah. I've been to York once before, opening for Ward Thomas, and it was a beautiful venue where they played. I had had an extra day there, I think we might have had a day off there and I made the most of it. As I said earlier, I got a little Anthony Bourdain in my heart, and when I get to explore a new city, I go all in. I research, I come up with a hit list of stuff, so I walked around the whole city, the Roman walls. I did not go into York Minster, maybe I'll get to do that this time. I walked down all the old parts of the city, the famous streets that inspired Harry Potter, I went for a run along the river there, way out into the country and back. It was just beautiful. Had some great food too, so I definitely aim to get a little taste of that again, and the folks at 45 Vinyl have been so welcoming, and I look forward to connecting with them.
You’ll also be part of the Country Calling lineup on the Saturday. As someone who’s been here multiple times, how exciting is it to hear new festivals that are getting both American and UK country artists on the bill?
It’s great for you guys. The experiences I've had have just been absolutely home runs every time, and I have the good fortune of being friends with Lucy Silvas, and she's hooked me up with some top-notch pickers, so I'm gonna have an ace band with me for these shows. I've played with these guys—one of the guys I've not performed with before, but the other two I have—and I can’t wait.
The countdown is definitely on to the album and your UK shows. It’s good to know you've not forgotten about us!
It's too late for that, y'all are stuck with me now.
Thank you so much and have a great time while you're over here and good luck with next Friday's release day.
Thank you, Ian.
Country Calling will take place at Kings Farm in Chelmsford over the weekend of August 14th to 16th and you can find more details, along with ticket information on their WEBSITE whilst you can keep up to date with all of the latest news on INSTAGRAM TIKTOK or FACEBOOK.