The Sit Down with Waylon Payne
Born into country music royalty, Waylon Payne carries a legacy few can match. Over two decades since his acclaimed debut The Drifter, Payne returns with Wayward (out July 17 via Big Loud Texas). Produced by Frank Liddell and Eric Masse, the deeply personal 13-track collection showcases his razor-sharp songwriting at its most vulnerable. Fresh off the release and preparing to take the stage at the Grand Ole Opry, Waylon sat down with us to talk returning to the spotlight, writing from the heart, and his dream of bringing his sound show to the UK.
Hey there Waylon, how are you?
Fine thanks, how are you Ian?
Good, thank you for taking the time.
Thank you for asking. I'm having a ball, I'm doing what I wanted to do with this, which is promoting it over in the UK. It’s a goal of mine to come over there and do some things. I want to see the UK again - it's been a while!
When was the last time you were over here?
1990s and early 2000s, I was in a roadshow, the Shelby Lynne Show, and I was her harmony singer. We did Jools Holland and a lot of things for the BBC too.
The album is out, but I guess today is also a big day for you as you play The Opry tonight, I guess in about six hours' time!
It's my favourite thing in the world to do. I picked out my clothes yesterday, they still fit, so I'm good. I'll shave in a little bit, and head up there and spend the evening with some folks that like music. I love it. I came to this town to be able to have nights like this.
How does it feel to be a small part of the Opry 100 celebration?
I love it. My mother raised me around the Opry. She was a country singer in the 70s named Sami Jo Smith. I was born in '72, and her hit happened around '70, '71, so all my life has been with country stars, and she afforded me a luxury of meeting a lot of great heroes who are still in my life today. I don't shy away from that at all, because she was a queen, and I try really hard to carry on that legacy.
Tonight, Sons of Legion make their Opry debut.
They do.
What words or advice are you going to give them, as someone who's been there, and as you said, has ultimately lived the life of country music?
Just go out there and find your spot, make sure you notice the circle where all the greats have stood, and then sing your song and take in your moment. Have a ball. That's what we do; that's why we got into this and all want to play that iconic show.
Does that phone call ever get old?
Never. I wait for it all the time. I drive them nuts. I'm the guy that's like, oh, I'm in town this week if you need to fill in! I've been doing it for years, I don't mind. I dream of being a member of that establishment one day, and hopefully that will come to fruition in my life, because I believe it's an important institution. Country music needs it.
They have no excuse now though with the release of Wayward.
Right? You know, let's see how it does first, and maybe they'll let us in.
Hey there Waylon, how are you?
Fine thanks, how are you Ian?
Good, thank you for taking the time.
Thank you for asking. I'm having a ball, I'm doing what I wanted to do with this, which is promoting it over in the UK. It’s a goal of mine to come over there and do some things. I want to see the UK again - it's been a while!
When was the last time you were over here?
1990s and early 2000s, I was in a roadshow, the Shelby Lynne Show, and I was her harmony singer. We did Jools Holland and a lot of things for the BBC too.
The album is out, but I guess today is also a big day for you as you play The Opry tonight, I guess in about six hours' time!
It's my favourite thing in the world to do. I picked out my clothes yesterday, they still fit, so I'm good. I'll shave in a little bit, and head up there and spend the evening with some folks that like music. I love it. I came to this town to be able to have nights like this.
How does it feel to be a small part of the Opry 100 celebration?
I love it. My mother raised me around the Opry. She was a country singer in the 70s named Sami Jo Smith. I was born in '72, and her hit happened around '70, '71, so all my life has been with country stars, and she afforded me a luxury of meeting a lot of great heroes who are still in my life today. I don't shy away from that at all, because she was a queen, and I try really hard to carry on that legacy.
Tonight, Sons of Legion make their Opry debut.
They do.
What words or advice are you going to give them, as someone who's been there, and as you said, has ultimately lived the life of country music?
Just go out there and find your spot, make sure you notice the circle where all the greats have stood, and then sing your song and take in your moment. Have a ball. That's what we do; that's why we got into this and all want to play that iconic show.
Does that phone call ever get old?
Never. I wait for it all the time. I drive them nuts. I'm the guy that's like, oh, I'm in town this week if you need to fill in! I've been doing it for years, I don't mind. I dream of being a member of that establishment one day, and hopefully that will come to fruition in my life, because I believe it's an important institution. Country music needs it.
They have no excuse now though with the release of Wayward.
Right? You know, let's see how it does first, and maybe they'll let us in.
How good does it feel to have the album out in the world?
It is incredible. I've never had the experience of hearing myself on the radio, but I have over the past few months with this album, and it never gets old. It's a delightful, delightful feeling, and I have high hopes that people will find something that they like in this album, and that it takes me all over the world. I hope it finds a home and some folks like it over there, because I really enjoy coming over and playing.
Does it feel strange putting yourself back front and centre?
No, as it’s what I've been doing my entire life. When Willie asked if I would join the band, I considered that as the highest honour that I'd ever been given and it was a no-brainer. That man needed me and he's helped me and been there my entire life. Anything I can do to pay him back for his kindness, and just for the things he taught me as a musician, and as a songwriter through his music alone. To be able to be there and know him all my life has been a treat and I'm honoured as hell to sit by him every night.
Do you feel that this album completes a bit of a trilogy for you of these releases? Even if it has been over the course of 23 years!
It's pretty neat. I joke that this is Volume 3 in a Life Well Lived series, and that was just a joke, but it's catching on somehow. I tell my stories the way I do, and I'm extremely proud of this record. We all put 100% in. Eric Masse and Frank Liddell produced it, and we have some of the finest musicians in the world on it. I hope that y'all like it.
What do you think your reaction would be if you went back 23 years to that first album to say this is where you're gonna be in 23 years' time?
Well, I had quite a problem with drug and drink, and I would change that if I could. At the same time, it was a heck of a party and I wouldn't have some of the songs I have now had I not gone through all that stuff! I would probably tell the kid to keep his nose clean, because he was outrageous. He was electric, and he was on fire, but he was dangerous, too.
Well, they say country music is the truth and you generally get that feeling listening to Wayward that this is your story.
They're all story songs, most of the things that I write. The Drifter was a definite journey, and it took you on a little ride. The Blue Eyes record—if you took time to read through the essays and listened to the songs so that you could understand what was going on. Then this one is more stories that I pulled out of the vault up here. Some of them are fictitious and make-believe—"Postcards From the Mailman" and "Caramello" are total works of fiction, then there are others like "Now Watch Him Die" that I wrote about Henry Rollins, and his experience losing his best friend, Joe, when they were young and just rockers starting out. "Darla" is a very personal story from my young youth about being homeless and gay on the streets, cast out from the family. There's lots of different stories.
It is incredible. I've never had the experience of hearing myself on the radio, but I have over the past few months with this album, and it never gets old. It's a delightful, delightful feeling, and I have high hopes that people will find something that they like in this album, and that it takes me all over the world. I hope it finds a home and some folks like it over there, because I really enjoy coming over and playing.
Does it feel strange putting yourself back front and centre?
No, as it’s what I've been doing my entire life. When Willie asked if I would join the band, I considered that as the highest honour that I'd ever been given and it was a no-brainer. That man needed me and he's helped me and been there my entire life. Anything I can do to pay him back for his kindness, and just for the things he taught me as a musician, and as a songwriter through his music alone. To be able to be there and know him all my life has been a treat and I'm honoured as hell to sit by him every night.
Do you feel that this album completes a bit of a trilogy for you of these releases? Even if it has been over the course of 23 years!
It's pretty neat. I joke that this is Volume 3 in a Life Well Lived series, and that was just a joke, but it's catching on somehow. I tell my stories the way I do, and I'm extremely proud of this record. We all put 100% in. Eric Masse and Frank Liddell produced it, and we have some of the finest musicians in the world on it. I hope that y'all like it.
What do you think your reaction would be if you went back 23 years to that first album to say this is where you're gonna be in 23 years' time?
Well, I had quite a problem with drug and drink, and I would change that if I could. At the same time, it was a heck of a party and I wouldn't have some of the songs I have now had I not gone through all that stuff! I would probably tell the kid to keep his nose clean, because he was outrageous. He was electric, and he was on fire, but he was dangerous, too.
Well, they say country music is the truth and you generally get that feeling listening to Wayward that this is your story.
They're all story songs, most of the things that I write. The Drifter was a definite journey, and it took you on a little ride. The Blue Eyes record—if you took time to read through the essays and listened to the songs so that you could understand what was going on. Then this one is more stories that I pulled out of the vault up here. Some of them are fictitious and make-believe—"Postcards From the Mailman" and "Caramello" are total works of fiction, then there are others like "Now Watch Him Die" that I wrote about Henry Rollins, and his experience losing his best friend, Joe, when they were young and just rockers starting out. "Darla" is a very personal story from my young youth about being homeless and gay on the streets, cast out from the family. There's lots of different stories.
Let's get onto the songwriting, because not many albums would have a solo write for 8 of the 13 tracks. That's just really impressive on its own, I have to give you credit there!
Well, thank you. I don't mind solos. I like writing with my friends as well, though. My solo stuff is usually very, very introspective and very personal. If you catch on to a story in one of them, chances are, if I wrote it by myself, that actually happened somewhere along the way, and those are my musical memories of it. Others are just getting together with trusted friends that I've known for years and years, and we have a particular way of working together that always produces success. I never walk out of a room with Miranda and Ashley that we don't have something great. I never walk out of a room with Charlie, or Matraca Berg, or Pam Tillis, or Dean Alexander. I never walk out of a room with those folks that we don't have something amazing. So, I'm very blessed to be able to do what I do.
Do you still have some nerves though, when you submit these songs that maybe you've written on your own for the final album?
I'm crafty enough to have nobody know but me what I'm talking about, and maybe if there's another person involved, maybe they'll catch some catchphrases. I don't necessarily do that, but I am in the process of starting to think about doing an acoustic record this fall in my living room of about 15 solo writes that I've done over the past few years, and I've been listening to them—oh, I can't stop listening to them! It makes me feel they deserve a turn. At the same time, some of them are really, really personal, and I don't change genders. If I'm singing about a man, I sing about a man. If I sing about a woman, I'm singing about a woman. Nobody usually catches on to that until way, way, way into it, and they're like, hey, wait a minute. I'm like, it's okay, pal.
You went all in with the co-writers for this project. Was it quite easy to approach them for it?
Well, most of my co-writes are orchestrated. That's our job. When we're not on the road or things like that, I have a job that pays me to write songs every month. I'm being a little lax right now, sorry, Frank, I'll get on it. Normally, we are all very, very good about hey, let's write next week, and we make appointments with each other, and we put ourselves together so that we can keep this creative thing going. Everyone on this record that co-wrote, that I have as a co-writer, I love tremendously. So, that's our job. Our job is to come up with stories and songs, and we're no different than the Carole Kings of the day, back in the day, and the Randy Newmans, and we're still doing it.
Their releases on their own have been huge too.
Like I said, I'm truly, truly a blessed man to be able to do what I do, and again, I'm gonna put on shiny pants in a minute, and a shirt that holds my gut in, and I'm gonna go sing on the Opry, and it's gonna be great.
Are there times where you're almost thankful that they've let you record it, and they haven't tried to record it themselves?
Listen, if somebody wants to sing a song of mine, I am all for that. I'm just glad to be able to help them along. Anytime anybody wants to cut something I've written, great, go for it. You are not gonna hear me say a bad word about it!
Well, thank you. I don't mind solos. I like writing with my friends as well, though. My solo stuff is usually very, very introspective and very personal. If you catch on to a story in one of them, chances are, if I wrote it by myself, that actually happened somewhere along the way, and those are my musical memories of it. Others are just getting together with trusted friends that I've known for years and years, and we have a particular way of working together that always produces success. I never walk out of a room with Miranda and Ashley that we don't have something great. I never walk out of a room with Charlie, or Matraca Berg, or Pam Tillis, or Dean Alexander. I never walk out of a room with those folks that we don't have something amazing. So, I'm very blessed to be able to do what I do.
Do you still have some nerves though, when you submit these songs that maybe you've written on your own for the final album?
I'm crafty enough to have nobody know but me what I'm talking about, and maybe if there's another person involved, maybe they'll catch some catchphrases. I don't necessarily do that, but I am in the process of starting to think about doing an acoustic record this fall in my living room of about 15 solo writes that I've done over the past few years, and I've been listening to them—oh, I can't stop listening to them! It makes me feel they deserve a turn. At the same time, some of them are really, really personal, and I don't change genders. If I'm singing about a man, I sing about a man. If I sing about a woman, I'm singing about a woman. Nobody usually catches on to that until way, way, way into it, and they're like, hey, wait a minute. I'm like, it's okay, pal.
You went all in with the co-writers for this project. Was it quite easy to approach them for it?
Well, most of my co-writes are orchestrated. That's our job. When we're not on the road or things like that, I have a job that pays me to write songs every month. I'm being a little lax right now, sorry, Frank, I'll get on it. Normally, we are all very, very good about hey, let's write next week, and we make appointments with each other, and we put ourselves together so that we can keep this creative thing going. Everyone on this record that co-wrote, that I have as a co-writer, I love tremendously. So, that's our job. Our job is to come up with stories and songs, and we're no different than the Carole Kings of the day, back in the day, and the Randy Newmans, and we're still doing it.
Their releases on their own have been huge too.
Like I said, I'm truly, truly a blessed man to be able to do what I do, and again, I'm gonna put on shiny pants in a minute, and a shirt that holds my gut in, and I'm gonna go sing on the Opry, and it's gonna be great.
Are there times where you're almost thankful that they've let you record it, and they haven't tried to record it themselves?
Listen, if somebody wants to sing a song of mine, I am all for that. I'm just glad to be able to help them along. Anytime anybody wants to cut something I've written, great, go for it. You are not gonna hear me say a bad word about it!
It's been 6 years between this and the last album. Do you now feel like you can hit the ground running following this release with no limit?
I've got a great little band that I play music with. I also want to come over and explore doing a variety show for the BBC. I want to present this record like Bobie Gentry did back in the day, and Tom Jones, and those great shows where I'd sing live. I like to sing live - I miss that about television and recorded music. I miss people that could actually sing, going and putting on a show, people dressing up and coming in and sitting down at a table and having a cocktail, feathers and boobies and horns. I just have a wild idea for a BBC show for this record, and I hope that it catches on, because I just loved the UK when we were over there in the early 2000s. It just made such an impression on me, and I think that this album, from my experience with the audiences in the UK, and they seem to embrace music, and that's all I'm after is for people that want to hear some music, because I want to sing something for you.
The landscape of country music across Europe has obviously changed so much in the last 25 years, but we are still told by artists that we are such an attentive crowd who at the same time deep dive into music and know the more obscure and even unreleased stuff!
I love the crowds over there, because they do really appreciate music. That's what I'm saying, I know this record's good, I know it is, because we put some effort into it, and we made a really fine album for people to enjoy, and I'm so glad that y'all are getting to hear it over there, and that you even are interested in talking today. I hope that whoever reads this goes and finds this album and gives it a shot. If you like it, I'll be right there. I’ve got my bags packed! I can't wait for English breakfast. I love pork and beans. I love them, and when I got over there, I was like, holy smokes, they put your eggs on toast, and you get beans? Bonus! What a great day!
We can certainly sort you English breakfast, country pubs, and a Sunday roast.
Yeah, it's awesome! What a way to live! And you have castles everywhere, and you might be able to see Kings or Queens! It's badass! I love it!
How important are those attentive crowds for your live show because it really comes across that's what this record needs.
Well, here's the thing, I'm not a very popular or well-known artist. I've been doing it a long time, I have a small following, but I'm looking for people that want to hear it. I'm just looking for a home. I'm looking for people that get a feeling and want to hear some more, and if that is the UK, I will be on it. I have not had hopes for an album like I have for this one in a long time, and I thank the people at Big Loud and Universal and Big Loud Texas who have the ability to take it to you, and it's being offered to another world. They're playing me in Australia right now. Who knew? I'm like, g'day, mate, I'm on a plane! That's a long trip, though, that's a quicker trip to the UK than it is to Australia, so maybe we'll start with you guys first. Not so good with planes.
Definitely time to dust off the old passport, I think.
Got a new one, just in anticipation of this next 10 years.
There you go, you're making the plans already, that's what I like to hear.
I'm hoping.
Well thank you so much Waylon for your time today.
Ian, thank you too, and let me know what you think as you absorb it more
I’m loving it so far and hopefully we can welcome you over here. There'll be a nice cold beer waiting for you.
Here we go. I'll see you there.
I've got a great little band that I play music with. I also want to come over and explore doing a variety show for the BBC. I want to present this record like Bobie Gentry did back in the day, and Tom Jones, and those great shows where I'd sing live. I like to sing live - I miss that about television and recorded music. I miss people that could actually sing, going and putting on a show, people dressing up and coming in and sitting down at a table and having a cocktail, feathers and boobies and horns. I just have a wild idea for a BBC show for this record, and I hope that it catches on, because I just loved the UK when we were over there in the early 2000s. It just made such an impression on me, and I think that this album, from my experience with the audiences in the UK, and they seem to embrace music, and that's all I'm after is for people that want to hear some music, because I want to sing something for you.
The landscape of country music across Europe has obviously changed so much in the last 25 years, but we are still told by artists that we are such an attentive crowd who at the same time deep dive into music and know the more obscure and even unreleased stuff!
I love the crowds over there, because they do really appreciate music. That's what I'm saying, I know this record's good, I know it is, because we put some effort into it, and we made a really fine album for people to enjoy, and I'm so glad that y'all are getting to hear it over there, and that you even are interested in talking today. I hope that whoever reads this goes and finds this album and gives it a shot. If you like it, I'll be right there. I’ve got my bags packed! I can't wait for English breakfast. I love pork and beans. I love them, and when I got over there, I was like, holy smokes, they put your eggs on toast, and you get beans? Bonus! What a great day!
We can certainly sort you English breakfast, country pubs, and a Sunday roast.
Yeah, it's awesome! What a way to live! And you have castles everywhere, and you might be able to see Kings or Queens! It's badass! I love it!
How important are those attentive crowds for your live show because it really comes across that's what this record needs.
Well, here's the thing, I'm not a very popular or well-known artist. I've been doing it a long time, I have a small following, but I'm looking for people that want to hear it. I'm just looking for a home. I'm looking for people that get a feeling and want to hear some more, and if that is the UK, I will be on it. I have not had hopes for an album like I have for this one in a long time, and I thank the people at Big Loud and Universal and Big Loud Texas who have the ability to take it to you, and it's being offered to another world. They're playing me in Australia right now. Who knew? I'm like, g'day, mate, I'm on a plane! That's a long trip, though, that's a quicker trip to the UK than it is to Australia, so maybe we'll start with you guys first. Not so good with planes.
Definitely time to dust off the old passport, I think.
Got a new one, just in anticipation of this next 10 years.
There you go, you're making the plans already, that's what I like to hear.
I'm hoping.
Well thank you so much Waylon for your time today.
Ian, thank you too, and let me know what you think as you absorb it more
I’m loving it so far and hopefully we can welcome you over here. There'll be a nice cold beer waiting for you.
Here we go. I'll see you there.